Re: Sick little combo... (1.BillyT)

I don't know what to say . . . things I have not ever seen before a popping up all over. You are right sir!

 

Re: Sick little combo... (1.BillyT)

i was thinking about getting this manifold, rather than getting the ATP one.
which is a pain to get on to the motor.
is it any easier putting this manifold than ATP's?

 

Re: Sick little combo... (Super1.8T)

that is a beefy manifold. What's it go for?

 

Re: Sick little combo... (16vracer)

395 without wastegate outlet. 449 with outlet.
How does this compare to the ATP unit? Any strengths/weaknesses over cast mani's? will a mani like this be prone to cracking at the welds?

 

Re: Sick little combo... (Jedi801)

It looks to me like a solid unit, I would use it. Tial 44mm.... delicious.
But, It will place the turbo closer to the firewall on the car, so it might be harder to put on a big compressor.

 

Re: Sick little combo... (1.BillyT)

what is a wastegate ??? ...

 

wow that would make it soooooooooo much easier to get a wrench down there.

 

Re: (halchka99)

if you need a 44mm wastegate your turbos too big for your application, other then that its a decent manifold. The offset to the passenger side is gonna mean you will need a downpipe other then atps, it would probably fit it just may rub.

 

Re: Sick little combo... (FrankiEBoneZ)

Quote, originally posted by FrankiEBoneZ »

It looks to me like a solid unit, I would use it. Tial 44mm.... delicious. But, It will place the turbo closer to the firewall on the car, so it might be harder to put on a big compressor.

I dont think thats the case, this manifold has been used on multiple 1.8T swaps where space between the head and firewall is an important issue. Ask the measurements but i'll be using one similar to billys in the near future. GT3071R since my RS is now sold

 

Manifold seems nice made from two elbow pipe and two Tees...Not bad http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

 

Re: (Don R)

This manifolkd will fit a MK4 no problem. It was actually designed for a Mk2, where the clearance is extremely critical....
I was running a 46mm wastegate. No such thing as having too big a wastegate. I'll have rock solid boost control no matter how much power I make. It might be overkill, but in this situation, that isn't a bad thing. The main reason i went with the 44 was for the V-band attachment. Not much room down there to do much of anything, and this also allows me infinite adjustment of where I want the outlet to be.
This will be the setup to run an a 20V Mk2, no doubt about it.
And yeah, the manifold is 100 times easier to bolt on than the ATP manifold. I had the old style MMP manifold on there previously, and it only took me about 45 minutes to pull the turbo and manifold, to test fit the new one..

 

Re: (1.BillyT)

So, this won't work with the ATP downpipe will it? If not, do they have any plans of making one that will?

 

Re: (1.BillyT)

V-Band wastegate... nice. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I dunno about that V-Band weld to the pipe holding though... lots of stresses there and on the dump side right at the flange.

 

Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)

not that I am aware of. I would make copies of mine, but it will only work on a Mk2, not to mention the compresser will be on the passenger side.
Here it is, mocked up on the car...

 

Re: (1.BillyT)

so do you think that the atp dp will still fit with this manifold or would there be need for some modification of the downpipe?

 

Re: (1.BillyT)

Quote, originally posted by 1.BillyT »

I was running a 46mm wastegate. No such thing as having too big a wastegate. I'll have rock solid boost control no matter how much power I make.

thats the thing though and what most people don't understand. the more power you plan to make the smaller the wastegate you will need becuase the less you will need to by pass. the more you want to bypass the larger the opening you would need. The only reason you would want to bypass taht much exhaust gas would be because your turbo can make alot more boost then your using... If you need to control it that much your turbo is way to large for your application and your just throwing out energy and killing the overall effciency of the setup. You'd be able to use a smaller turbo to make the same peak power where you are now bleeding it all off through your massive wastegate, but you'd get a much better power curve with tons of area under the curve with the smaller turbo using only the little wastegate to control little spikes here and there.

 

Re: (Boost112)

Quote, originally posted by Boost112 »

so do you think that the atp dp will still fit with this manifold or would there be need for some modification of the downpipe?

I fyou run it with an external wastegate it will definitly not fit at all. and also now looking at how far over the the passenger side it is I dont' think it would fit even without the wastegate.

 

Re: (chris86vw)

No way the ATP downpipe will fit. The turbo flange on the manmifold is at aabout a 10-15 degree angle towards the head, to gove more clearance. ATP manifold is verticle.

 

Re: (chris86vw)

Quote, originally posted by chris86vw »

thats the thing though and what most people don't understand. the more power you plan to make the smaller the wastegate you will need becuase the less you will need to by pass. the more you want to bypass the larger the opening you would need. The only reason you would want to bypass taht much exhaust gas would be because your turbo can make alot more boost then your using... If you need to control it that much your turbo is way to large for your application and your just throwing out energy and killing the overall effciency of the setup. You'd be able to use a smaller turbo to make the same peak power where you are now bleeding it all off through your massive wastegate, but you'd get a much better power curve with tons of area under the curve with the smaller turbo using only the little wastegate to control little spikes here and there.

That's all fine and good in theory, but it real life, it just isn't the case.
And seriously, that is as far as I am gonna get into it with you... I know how you love to argue

 

Re: (1.BillyT)

Quote, originally posted by 1.BillyT »

That's all fine and good in theory, but it real life, it just isn't the case. And seriously, that is as far as I am gonna get into it with you... I know how you love to argue

A courtesy to the board would be at least a little explanation as to why, but sorry no. If you need a wastegate that big to bleed off that much exhaust you have selected your turbo inccorectly. Especially on small engines like ours where getting a huge turbo moving is gonna take every last bit of exhaust flow/heat it can pump out, your not gonna have some huge surge of boost that only a huge wastegate can control all that extra exhaust. If you had a large engine with a smaller turbo then yes you could possibly need a larger wastegate to help control the boost, but thats not how people think when they think bigger wastegate, they think oh wow, he's gotta be making alot of power.

 

Re: (1.BillyT)

Nice parts!
I like arguing with Chris, so... Regarding the big WG, it looks nice... Also, I'm thinking Billy may have a point because when you're putting out 400whp and your turbo can do more, you need to bypass some of that exhaust... hence the need for a big WG. If you're doing 400whp with the WG 75% closed, you still need to bypass say 100whp worth of exhaust don't you?
Speedy G

 

Re: (Speedy G)

Quote, originally posted by Speedy G »

Nice parts! I like arguing with Chris, so... Regarding the big WG, it looks nice... Also, I'm thinking Billy may have a point because when you're putting out 400whp and your turbo can do more, you need to bypass some of that exhaust... hence the need for a big WG. If you're doing 400whp with the WG 75% closed, you still need to bypass say 100whp worth of exhaust don't you? Speedy G

Which is my point, you are not wasting tons of potential engergy, that you could more wisely use with a correctly sized turbo. If your turbo can make 100 more hp then what your making then its too big plain and simple.. I'm not saying use one that is just running the piss out of it and the gate never opening (like I do) but if you need to bleed off that much exhuast, the turbo is wrong, plain and simple.

 

Re: (chris86vw)

Dude a WG that is 75% closed is pretty much on target for the turbo size you want. However, if you're making 400whp bleeding 25% of your exhaust, which is not a lot, is 100whp. Now that's a lot for a tiny 34mm WG like mine, and you'll probably see boost creep.
Speedy G

 

Re: (Speedy G)

Quote, originally posted by Speedy G »

Dude a WG that is 75% closed is pretty much on target for the turbo size you want. However, if you're making 400whp bleeding 25% of your exhaust, which is not a lot, is 100whp. Now that's a lot for a tiny 34mm WG like mine, and you'll probably see boost creep. Speedy G

that math is not that cut and dry by any means.

 

Re: (chris86vw)

True but it illustrates my point, and I think there's a point to be made there.
Speedy G